polyamory and christianity

He and I are both married (and our spouses are also dating each other). I just love how JD and Austin would be talking about things and Ill see in the video here that Dedeker and like, "Mm, right," and Emily is just like, "What the fuck is happening?". Mechelke, who is a youth minister and theology grad student in Minnesota. J.D. When we read the Bible we have to ask that question I think. Obviously, that's the old liberal church. We love to hear from our listeners and we reply individually to every message. As Elisabeth A. Sheff puts it, a polyamorous relationship multiplies emotions, which is great when everyone is feeling warm and fuzzy. Right. There are groups and individuals who are fine with doing away with the nuclear family. Mechelke:Yes, it was great to talk with you guys. Christians can easily overlook their own relational sins while pointing the finger at non-binary relationships. The best way you can support our show is to become one of our Patreon supporters, you can go to patreon.com/multiamoryto sign up for that. One writer, Ian Harber, says he left his evangelical church for this reason but came back because he found Progressive Christianity to be weak and hypocritical. J.D. J.D. The first one though is free with us with your promo code tryquip.com/multiamory then you get the very first one free, then from then on, every three months you get a toothpaste, a little travel toothpaste, a toothbrush head, and a little triple-A battery to run your toothbrush for just 10 bucks and it's super worth it because that's when you should be changing out your toothbrush anyways. I know there is a specific site and I'm not finding it specifically in my Google search, but it seems there's a lot of similar sites. That is, what is the moral logic that drives your view that monogamy is the only way? There's a lot of Christianity in general, and a lot of assumptions about what it means to be Christian that have come through the historical thing and rather than what Jesus was really focused on. Austin:All of it. You can't lift an ancient concept and shove it into the modern era. Again, we love it, all three of us do its really hot. Austin:I would guess both of us are well enough versed that we could go through those one by one, but we could also point to written materials out there that people could just sit and read on their own and not run through them one on one. People around them being awful to them and trying to figure out how to scrap and survive. Relationships are all about personal fulfillment!. I was just curious if there were any other sort of hit passages. Dedeker: He was almost going to go seminary. I feel like there are enough barriers that keep people from finding a religious community that will help them have that kind of growth. At least one argument says that people pursue polyamorous relationships because its their sexual orientation. in Youth and Family Ministry. J.D. This shows you how to live your life. That's really all we're going to talk about. Copyright 2023, Christianity.com. I think what you're getting at J.D. Austin: I don't know anything about that particular statistic. Robert Gass, a great theologian, I'm doubting my Scripture-quoting now. J.D. We have two very special guests; Rev. Polyamory is having a consensual relationship with multiple parties simultaneously. Yes. I just love how JD and Austin would be talking about things and Ill see in the video here that Dedeker and like, "Mm, right," and Emily is just like, "What the fuck is happening?". Posted by 1 year ago. J.D. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives are to submit to their husbands in everything. Jase:Yes, I imagine with Google these days, you can probably find some resources around you. Mechelke: I know. I think there's at least in this ELCA, liberal Lutheran wing of the church, I can see at least in the leadership of this shift moving from caring so much both where you put your genitals. Mechelke: The answer of Jesus. He's dead now. It's more nuanced than that, and its not on ethics, that's one thing that it says. J.D. This is my body broken for you, blah, blah, blah. I would say most of it's happening at the congregational level. While I think they are open, I think they're worried about the replications it'll have on the church, the ministry et cetera, the reputation. The amazing thing is that they will send you a toothbrush head refill which is just $10 every three months. Then they go through and then there's already good solid research that is going through this, it's looked at the nuance of all of those passages that you were referring to earlier, Jase. Jase: Wow. If you talk about it as a whole, because an individual author is referring to something that a previous author said, but that they might have some disagreement with, and they get into other details. Theyre not monogamously oriented. 0. Currently, he is pursuing an M.A. As for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses in the story about the bush?" And what the heck is a sword drill? Sorry, please go ahead. Yes, you're going to get used to the goat and the whole animal sacrifice thing Emily. Then we have relationships that include multiple people, known as polyamory. A change from that to, "I value consent, and I want to treat this person in front of me as a subject and not an object.". We kind of get closer to, I guess, that oneness or something like that. I think Jesus' answer would be pretty similar. We're looking at broad strokes rather than fine points and it does help us. Austin:Yes, you voted today. That's going to vary from context to context, and so by not talking about it in some contexts, it upholds the status quo, and in other ones that holds to more of a libertarian live and let live kind of mindset. Jase: It's a very educational one for Emily. Polyamory is not just about sex. Like in my denomination that I work in, the ELCA, the liberal Lutherans, there's this guideline for pastors basically that says you can have sex outside of marriage. Also, Polygamy almost always entails a man taking more than one wife, while polyamory is much more egalitarian. They really have no other valid option, they say. The thing I would say is you mentioned this religious lifestyle, is it compatible with polyamory? Austin Adkinson and theologian J.D. They're still kind of preaching the, "What can I do without getting run out my job? For me, it's not even the finding the Bible passages that might justify it. Its not like an action you do with something that's done to you, like in Leviticus again, there's is this idea where they put all their sins under this goat and the goat just goes into the wilderness and dies. I know there is a specific site and I'm not finding it specifically in my Google search, but it seems there's a lot of similar sites. Sex and relationship therapist Renee Divine says: An open relationship is one where one or both partners have a desire for sexual relationships outside of each other, and polyamory is about having intimate, loving relationships with multiple people. And thats the key. We'll expect a bibliography at the end of this. Prior to us meeting, he had some physical . While we all have needs, God calls us to love. Questions.. If a church is openly for gay and queer folk, my guess is that you probably won't have that much push back polyamory, but if you start trying to become a leader xyz, you might still have problems, but that's at least my experience. There's definitely and I could point you to some academics that are writing about polyamory within Christian theology, at least, and using the Bible. By implication, much of the New Testament would come into question since Paul wrote roughly a quarter of it. There is nothing about the concept of a Biblical marriage that appeals to me. Despite Scripture having some instances of polygamy, Martin says, its still patriarchal and has no benefit for people in modern relationships., When asked why she doesnt become agnostic or atheist, Martin replies that she still believes in God and in Jesus teachings and values. Well, Austin, J.D., thank you so much for taking the time to join us on the show today. Anyway, in that conversation, though I think Dedeker was the one who made the point that she said the interesting thing about the Bible is that it's both a cultural piece, it's a historical piece, as well as a theological and belief related one. There's this story in Genesis 34, where this woman named Dinah who does not have any voice at all. When difficult or painful emotions are magnified in the same way, it can be exponentially more painful.. Dedeker: Yes, I was going to say that I finally got my placement head along with a battery and honestly, I have to be honest that at first, I was skeptical I was like, "I dont need replacement head that soon," like, "Whatever," but then once I switched it on, and once I switch out the battery, it was like, "Whoa, mama.". People interpreted as well, everyone who was polygamous in the Bible, something bad happened to them, so God is clearly trying to send a message that this is not the way that we should. I shook my head I know a little bit at one point but mostly, yes. Mechelke:I don't know if that's helpful or not. No need to defend why it's wrong or think through pro-poly arguments. Parties within these relationships are not swinging, which is where couples swap partners casually and consensually, but for sex only. I was curious, you said that the debate isn't really on this, but it seemed like the research was being done about homosexuality before the debate, even really started being the thing that's happening. Austin Adkinson is the pastor of Haller Lake UMC in Seattle. God intended that marriage should work this way from the very beginning: "Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. Polyamory is having a consensual relationship with multiple parties simultaneously. J.D. J.D. Emily: Our sponsor for this week is Quip, which is an amazing, amazing toothbrush company that the three of us have grown to love dearly. Progressive Christians want Christianity without the cross; without justice or repentance. Mechelke:Right, Austin might be better to talk about socially what's going on in the church. Buddhist Catholic Contemplative Evangelical General Christian Hindu Jewish Latter-day Saint Muslim New Visions . Single people are sometimes prone to idolize and romanticize the idea of marriage. Austin:I would say it's really going to vary very much by congregation and what the local situation is and people will have to figure out their own setting for themselves about whether a space is safe or not. Mechelke:Yes, it's like a theological jargon for the narrative of the Bible, the things that you hear. I don't know, I lost the thread of what Im trying to ask, but what's the stance now unlike what healthy sexuality is while still living a Christian lifestyle? Rev. That is certainly a value that a lot of Christianity has held on to. Hope That Is Anchored in the Scriptures - The Crosswalk Devotional - July 9. One of our stated goals is to inform the church, and we believe this article serves that purpose. I was just curious, is that one of the ones that comes up? Polygamy is "the practice or custom of having more than one wife or husband at the same time." Polygamy has been practiced by many cultures throughout history. If the girl drinks it, well then she's accepting that proposal. That's fine. He currently contributes work to iBelieve, Crosswalk, and supports various clients through the platform Upwork. That's a fear that a lot of pastors have. It is not one document, it is a library of stories that were told without being written down for a long period of time, but told and written down over by multiple authors over a period of centuries. It's just a long paper. There's a lot of other horrible things about that story, but I'm not even going to go into. Many things that are rich, but not universally applicable. Again, if youve gotten some value out this, and you can even pledge a low a dollar, you can pledge as low as technically 25 cents per podcast, if you feel like or at least 25 cents. Yet, this movement towards greater sexual freedom has emerged because of bullying in the name of Jesus. Emily, so my partner's an atheist and he does the same kind of--. What Does the Bible Say about Homosexuality? It's just-. Yes, Im in the thick of it I guess and Im actively working on trying to break that down. Oh, God, I love when Jesus says "bush". Rev. Austin:Alphabetical order gets me every time. Well, I don't know, who cares, but because sin in the Bible is very different than in ethics. However, Jewish Christians were still commanded to avoid eating meats that . Marriage has lasted as an institution within Christianity, other faiths, and the world as a whole. Polyamory and Christianity. This is the destruction mentioned above, where a person made in the image of God is left feeling trampled. We've been training her. It's very complex and each of the different pieces has its own contexts and background that have from periods that we don't have a whole lot of sociological and anthropological information. Dedeker:That it should be just one man, one woman or people take the route of like that's what people did at the time and we don't need to worry about it. It's multiple stories of people that were colonized, grappling with what it means to relate to their colonizers. Yes, I just wanted to say to JD that there's an article I should point him to that just was written by a friend of mine, they're at Clairmont, that is right in that area so it's something that you should be aware of. Christianity in polyamory Hey everyone, first time poster. Someone has to be at the head of the line, and the needs and feelings of at least one partner must be sacrificed at least some of the time. Copyright 2023, iBelieve.com. It's actually very related to a conversation the three of us were just having the other day because we've been recording some episodes for a new podcast that we're putting together where we're reading through the whole Bible. I feel like now you bring that up, immediately where people's minds go is homosexuality. J.D. Dedeker: I feel like that actually leads into my next question pretty well, which is that, as you know, we recently recorded a fan in pretty silly episode talking about instances of polyamory in the Bible, which mostly turned out to be maybe troublesome and maybe nonconsensual polygamy. I see it as a ritual that enables us to recognize that we can be forgiven. The reviews dont just make us feel good and make us feel like what we're doing is worthwhile, they also help us to show up higher in search results and they help other people to make the decision to give the show a listen. Austin Adkinson, a Methodist pastor in Seattle, and J.D. That if they're really just focusing on caring for other people, why should that be a barrier to somebody being able to get the things that we say that we value out of our faith in the ways it's helped us in our own lives? While marriage might not be involved, partners within a polyamorous union might live with one of their romantic partners, or both/all of them, or none of them. A new category, Christian Polyamory (CP), seeks to normalize the relationship by appealing to misreadings of scriptural witness and creative interpretations of Christian theology, says C. Daniel Motley. So, when I do things that challenge people's concepts of what the Bible really says or doesn't say, you have to look a lot at the context of what each piece of writing; what was happening around it and not just take it face value. Am I giving myself away? There was so much to learn there for those of you out there who this isn't second nature because you haven't been indoctrinated with revival for years and years and years. While I think they are open, I think they're worried about the replications it'll have on the church, the ministry et cetera, the reputation. Austin: That's literally where scapegoat comes from by the way. Is one and then they end up in the other. Rev. 2021 11 Jun Have you heard the term polyamory yet? an evangelical Christian group. Yes, they're amazing then give a little kickback to us. But she insists there's no conflict. It would be hard to say how widely that is being shifted, but I'm part of trying to actively break down what I think is harmful sexual ethics. I think that's interesting. What are the relevant biblical passages and themes that mandate monogamy for those who are called to marriage? In the Bible, at least, in my opinion, there is not this overwhelming consensus that sex is bad, or sex before marriage is bad. Jase:Right. Why would that be? I can tell that you're working on your Ph.D. right now and on your thesis because I could tell your brain just has too much information. was bringing up. Relationships require time and effort, and having multiple relationships doesnt simply rejuvenate anyones energy, nor are they granted extra time in life. I just want to start by saying, I'm not asking this as some kind of "looking for license". -but reading through it so Emily will finally know what the heck it's all about. If I was trying to be a pastor at the seminary I'm at, and I was openly polyamorous, there would be a good chance, there's this thing called a [unintelligible 01:01:31]committee in the Lutheran church. Wow. We can set the standard for marriage, and how healthy relationships ought to look. Both parts of my identity are important to me. Like Shakespeare, people know these quotes from Shakespeare. What Christ said about love your neighbor was not qualified with the word unless or any exceptions regarding sexual orientation, race, political affiliation, or religious beliefs. I think more of what Jesus' answer is roughly around. I think when people start thinking about whatever it is family values or whatever about the Bible, that I feel like where most people's mind goes is to homosexuality; is that okay or is it not? In just the very little that I've read of it, which now has been more than I ever have before because of Jase and Dedeker, but it just seems like a lot of stories and some of them not very well written. Rev. All right, with that, let's get to the interview. J.D. What is that? It's wrong. J.D. It helps us think about the complexities of how humans have been fucked up for centuries and the damages and people navigating. You're taking somebody's body in your mouth, and so there's some phalic-. So, beyond sexuality just in general, all of the things that are better understandings are things that have come up. Find out more about herhere. He's an outside-the-box thinker with a penchant for challenging the status quo. Good luck is honestly what I would say, but if you are just trying to practice your religion, I think there are some churches that are totally fine with lay people with just regular old church folk being polyamorous. Mechelke:What I'm doing is I'm putting the Christian symbolism into different roles, ethics in the BDSM community. For some people, it feels like, "It means that we're being forced to talk about how bad we are." Marriage is meant to bring two people together, not for their personal fulfillment, but for fulfilling one another, and moreover, pleasing God. It's like specifically if you're leadership in the church. Not only that, but the idea of what constitutes a normal relationship continues to shift. The Rise of Polyamory Curtis Erskine | Bio In this article, I want to describe what, for many, is a surprising shift: an acceptance within some Christian circles of polyamory (simultaneous romantic or sexual relationships with multiple partners). But hopefully weve learned the hard way from our rather late-to-the-discussion approach with LGBTQ questions that its better to get ahead of the game and construct a view rather than just fall back into frantic reactive mode when the issue is in full bloom. If you want to integrate your polyamory or openness with your . Because every denomination, then there are a lot of churches that are non-denominational as well. Not every new idea or invention serves to further humanity. Now that we understand polyamory, and how that differs from Gods design for Christian relationships, lets discern how we can respond to this new-age way of thinking. Would you want someone interacting with you only for personal gain? Before we can figure out what we as Christians say about polyamorous relationships, we have to consult what God says in His Word. Because every denomination, then there are a lot of churches that are non-denominational as well. For me, it's not even the finding the Bible passages that might justify it. Mechelke: Yes, the point is that there's no marriage in heaven. Polyamory is but the next movement to find an accepting audience among professing Christians already willing to justify any consensual sexual relationship with revisionist readings of Christian history and theology.. Austin Adkinson, a Methodist pastor in Seattle, and J.D. You start to think, "That's kind of erotic and yet it's evangelical." Also thinking about it, "This is my body." There is sometimes a hierarchy in which one person is the main connecting point and decides on the status of each party within the group. So Jesus was actually saying our family is those who we are doing faithful love and working toward the kingdom of God with. J.D. You don't have to be with anybody.

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